Craig, The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X 16,822. I do not disagree with you on the long irons Drew, we have hybrids to replace those. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. You cannot paste images directly. Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM Step 1 for those golfers is to increase ball speed. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited Then if your wedge gaps are off you might tweak them a degree. Bomb and gouge. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. with more loft than its designed for, so he cant go wrong by bending heads stronger. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. Callaway 2018 MB irons 5 Testers Needed! I realize it is hard to write to such a diverse audience, but Im going to give it my best with this post, and pose the basic two questions to each of you : If the answer to No. Or, is the bounce all the same? Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. Newer irons, however, are designed with a loft angle that is between 18 and 22 degrees. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. We have seen significant distance improvements with all 3 of these irons, it just needs to match up with how you launch the ball. Having spent a lot of his childhood in Hawaii and now on a course that will reward his best asset, Grant can justify this snippet from a recent interview: Fortunately for me, I grew up in the wind.. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. All rights reserved. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). You might as well get a distance gap before bending. This also gives me room for more wedges. The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:). In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* I dont want the extra length added to the shaft plus the x7 2i shaft I have for it is the last x7 shaft i have. But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. Powered by Invision Community. The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? 1 is somewhere between somewhat important to very important, then the next question has to be. Hybrid: Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0, 2 iron: Mizuno MP-20 HMB, Steelfiber i95 S, 39.5", Irons grab bag: 1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 3-AW Pinhawk Vertex irons, Apollo std stepped S Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW The one with a ballflight too high, is delivering the clubhead Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. Will keep that in mind from now on, It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther,. This is especially true of clubs made with long hosels. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. It has been working really well for me. Great article! ENTER NOW! If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The simple fact is that good golf cannot be played with a bad grip on the club. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. I did this several years ago and it ended up being quite expensive, so dont be me and order your custom set all at once! We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. What to consider when bending golf clubs. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. Your email address will not be published. The new era of stronger lofts is all about how far to hit 7 iron vs how close to hit 7 iron and more accurate. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. All Rights Reserved. What the heck are they were talking about? You may want to try searching if you need more info. Pasted as rich text. For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. Driver: Cobra Amp Cell Pro (8.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila RIP Phenom 3-wood: Titleist 906F4 (13.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila NV 7-wood: Michael Hopper whats in the bag accurate as of the WM Phoenix Open. After the death of his mother, Endycott understandably struggled through the late teens, understandably saying that, At the time, golf didnt really matter to me.. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Terms & Conditions I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards. My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. Furthermore, he was 15th at the end of the first round on debut here last year and 11th after Thursdays round at the correlative Corales in the Dominican Republic. Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. Reset Password Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! You must log in or register to reply here. 3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft. Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. That is why getting the numbers is so important. Like most things in life, the real answer is it all depends, golf is probably the only sport where they use generalization to describe something that is quite complicated. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. How will that affect it though? I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. TM TPx. I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. All rights reserved. Military. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? St Louis, MO. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X Not every iron or wedge can be bent. Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. I always found it a bit strange that I could be 20-40 yards ahead of some friends yet hit the same distance with mid to short irons. JavaScript is disabled. The risk that the club will break at the hosel is too high. I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. My old callway x forged dug more than my bent mp-4's. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. Seriously. Generally bending lofts on irons unless you are tweaking them to even out a gap. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. OP, which is it you are asking about.. making a club 2* stronger or increasing loft? When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. 1001 Industrial Blvd You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. Well gee, I guess if you cant get a 7 iron in the air, you really do need some help haha. When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 Undershooter Would bending it serve the same result? High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. The palms should be aligned, that is so that the two Vs formed by your thumb and forefinger should point in the same direction, whether a bit weak or strong from the neutral position.
