Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane. As long as you're in space, your spaceplane won't differ from any spacecraft: you will probably want to add batteries and generators to prevent the command pod from running out of power. Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device. That said, parachutes are an exceedingly effective means of reducing your stopping distance. And, of course, try to take off and land as slow as possible. I shouldn't have placed landing gears on the fuselage, I found that placing landing gears on flat surfaces like wings make landing gears a lot more stable. Also, excessive use of the rudder usually causes the plane to spin out of control and crash. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Powered by Invision Community. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. Remember how you want your center of lift/drag to be behind the center of gravity? When landing, you can achieve the highest lift for a given speed by raising the total angle of attack of your wings to 30 degrees (although this induces a great deal of drag). A plane is any craft which flies horizontally in an atmosphere utilizing lift primarily generated by wings, winglets, or control surfaces. if its too far behind plane cannot lift. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. At around . Second try, speed over land reached over 210 m/s and it didn't flip. (For test purposes, all aircraft are not pitched up and SAS is turned off. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Display as a link instead, This is all right if their high efficiency saves enough fuel, but that may not be the case in small spaceplanes with limited fuel capacity. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. I wanted to develop a plane to check how are the aerodynamics physics working, and went back to the KSC VAB to design a little plane. Landing speed (minimum speed for level flight) can be reduced by adding components to increase maneuverability, by using larger wings, by increasing wing angle of attack on the fuselage (3-5 degrees is the recommended range for a spaceplane to achieve the best lift-to-drag ratio [source]), and by decreasing the weight of the aircraft. That, combined with a Unity joint bug, makes your plane bounce. DO NOT ANGLE THEM! This is most likely the standard jitterbugging problem. Or maybe launching it in a vertical, Space Shuttle-style config. I see absolutely no need to be traveling that fast down the runway. I was wrong. Aircraft in this game is almost unfeasible, especially in career mode, you will lose all your money before you finally design an aircraft that can even takeoff. I just thought my planes were too heavy or not enough control surfaces. After placing wheels I always use the rotate gizmo on snap with absolute orientation. See the tutorial below. Be aware that while this angle will provide the lowest possible landing speed for your spaceplane, it will create problems if your center of gravity is too far ahead of your rear landing gears (causing a high-speed nose collision on touchdown) or if your rear landing gears are too far ahead of your engines, causing them to strike the runway first. For spaceplanes, avoid the FAT parts (wing, tail fin, and control surface). Or adding a RATO boosters. Note that when your jet engines shut down simultaneously while climbing in otherwise normal flight, it is generally due to a lack of pressure from the altitude you're flying at. For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), which hinders the plane taking off. Be aware that landing on water is an option if your spaceplane can fly level at less than ~40-50 m/s. I've had stability issues in planes where I'd have proper gear setup, balanced weight and lift. You need to make sure that the Orange axis on the rotate sphere is parallel to your, nose-tail axis. I dunno why but this picture makes the one side look like it is tipped in but I know they are straight, I believe it just the angle that the picture was taken that is causing it to look like this. But I am still not sure if there are more reasons or perhaps it is just a physics bug which I am wasting my time on. Valve Corporation. With a tail-dragger, the plane is already angled up just sitting on its wheels so once the speed is high enough, it should just float up by itself. Landing can be trickier for spaceplanes since they are designed for higher speeds than other aircraft and may not be able to fly level at speeds low enough for an easy landing (<50 m/s). Note: This tutorial was last updated for version 1.7.2. When I Start Why Engine, It Goes Straight But As Soon As I Takeoff. Suggest a Correction Copyright 2023 Nexstar Media Inc. All rights reserved. - KSP Matt Lowne 527K subscribers 1.3M views 2 years ago I've wanted. Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. Some testing is usually required with new designs to determine the best ascent profile. Thanks for everyone trying to help! Having said all that, these are the issues you must contend with. I checked my planes and I found the problem. For myself, it always was the position of landing gear in terms of pitch. When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. Angled landing gear create rotational force for whatever reason. if mounted on not struted part). Wing shapes do not appear to have a significant impact on drag or drag-to-lift ratio at this time, but swept wings are still an easy way to help ensure that your center of lift stays behind your center of mass. But also check to make sure that your wheels are placed symmetrically and your engines are aligned properly. Let it get good and clear of the ground before applying any control to it. If rear landing gear are strutted together, or braced to a center point, they are less likely to torque in different directions. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. My plane usually take off at a little over 120m/s. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Keep your spaceplane pointed about 90 degrees above prograde so that the wings and body of your aircraft slow you down as much as possible. Also pay attention to your fuel balance, especially if you're using several tanks placed in parallel to each other. It is advised to place your control surfaces as far from your center of mass as possible. An active front brake can cause your aircraft to rapidly and uncontrollably pivot left or right during landing, and high friction from the front wheel can potentially cause your plane to swerve violently both in landing and takeoff. Privacy Policy. - Have enough lift, either by a big wing area or high speed. This thread is archived . if mounted on not struted part) 2. put your main gear slightly behind center of mass. I just thought my planes were too heavy or not enough control surfaces. I have found a solution to my problem. This is an important distinction; a plane with great lift rating but without any control surfaces will fly easily but will be almost uncontrollable. I also used Intake build aid to balance the intakes. However, I want to place my wheels where i want to and not only on X parallel surfaces. However, it's not a matter of "atmosphere or not", just a matter of air pressure which decreases rapidly with altitude. Now for wings, the "Wing Connector Type B" is the largest you have so far; connect a set of those where the centre of mass is. If you keep all of the fuel in the front, you may find that your center of mass drifts backwards as your fuel drains. Keep at around 15 degrees to allow the plane to accelerate past 1000m/s. It provides a wider, more stable wheel base while keeping the wheels straight up and down (no camber). Also avoid the basic fin for the same reason. An altitude set to 18,000 meters tops off at 19,000 meters and drops to 15,700 meters . Temperature tolerance is the primary consideration for fuselage choice. Depending on which surface you place them on, they might not be parallel to the axis in which case. 1. make sure your main gear is not wobbling (ie. Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. Consider placing your rear landing gears close to the spaceplane's center of mass, but be careful to avoid an engine collision with the runway. When your nose is stable at about 10 degrees above the horizon, pull up hard and keep it pulled. Alright, it's late where I live so I'm gonna hit the hay and come back to it tommorrow, I read on the guide someone sent me and I think it is taht it doesn't have any way of pointing the up, so I'll tinker with some of the wings and see what I can do. Note that as you fly higher the air intakes will become less effective and you may come to a point when the engines will shut down due to the lack of air. Just like with rockets, get some courageous Kerbal in the cockpit and let's get started! I scoured the entire web for a solution, but found no working solution or at least dont work every time. You should be able to navigate fairly readily, and with the superb efficiency of jet engines, you should have plenty of fuel to go anywhere you need to go. More mass will mean it takes more drag to slow down on reentry, which will mean you go faster at lower altitudes and experience more reentry heating. Also, try this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14 (still works in 0.90 if you get updated firespitter.dll). 5.whether the body you anchor the landing gears to are firm. These have extremely poor temperature tolerance and will almost inevitably break up during atmospheric reentry. And at the extreme, producing down force, which I'm sure would cause more gear issues. That's over 2x the normal recommended max. You cannot paste images directly. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Keep your nose pointed prograde as you descend through the atmosphere. Keep in mind that lift rating and control surfaces are not connected: lift rating is basically the capacity of your wings to sustain the weight of your spaceplane, while control surfaces are parts of wing that can be moved to change the flow of the air around the plane and through this change a plane's direction, angle of attack or inclination. You can also use parachutes on landing, but care must be taken to ensure that an adequate length of runway remains since you'll only get one chance to use them. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. For an example, see the A-10 Warthog's landing gears: link. I have doubled the max stress value for aerodynamics failure in FAR for every category. Your link has been automatically embedded. When I use it for spaceplane guidance it keeps me on the correct heading, but the flight is very busy sine wave of a path. Note that no wings will tolerate more than 2400K, so the difference in temperature tolerance between Mk2 and Mk3 fuselages isn't terribly significant. Clear editor. Not sure why you would want that stability for speeds in excess of 200 m/s though, as most planes will take off and land at far slower speeds. Your very own tutorial.). Thanks for the help guys. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I believe the issue is there is not enough control surfaces to offset this issue, but it comes up very easy so it is not a very big deal. Display as a link instead, If there is, I would have found it long ago. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. A control surface with 100% control surface portion will weigh twice as much as a wing with the same lift would weigh. Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. Descending greater than -10 m/s usually makes a mess. KSC's runway is slightly north of Kerbin's equator and perfectly flat. LV-N "Nerv" nuclear thermal rockets are commonly used on SSTOs for the rocket stage if Rapiers are not used. If you have seen the examples above, I have planes that have angled landing gear and they work perfectly, yet some planes with straight landing gears don't. All rights reserved. Conversely, if you keep all of the fuel in the back, you may find that your center of mass gradually drifts so far in front of your center of lift that you can't keep your nose up anymore, also potentially resulting in a fatal scenario. Now imagine what happens like that. If you're planning on landing on a somewhat uneven surface, like an open grassland somewhere on Kerbin or an island on Laythe, consider packing some parachutes for deceleration. With initial passes, you start off with a periapsis at 50-60 km and gradually lower your apoapsis until you're in an almost circularized low orbit and then transition to your usual re-entry approach. 200 m/s runway stability just doesn't seem to have a worthwhile purpose to me, and is inducing counter productive engineering challenges. The centre of mass was between the 2 landing gears. When your jet engines stop working, it is time to ignite the old, reliable liquid fuel engine. I don't have any mods but sometimes a problem may be a simple bug. To survive re-entry, it's recommended to start your approach back into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, ideally with a periapsis of around 30-35 km. How do I fix this? I started investigating why this was happening. It helps to have a center of gravity which is close to your engines so that the landing gears can be close to both. The same principle applies here. While all other cargo bays are fine for making spaceplanes, the Mk3 Cargo Ramp produces obscene amounts of drag, which can easily prevent reaching orbital velocities by itself. Cookie Notice the I place on the wing and attach landing gear on those, it sometimes takes a few tries to find the right spot but well worth it. wings, unless they're very well braced). . One final point to consider is the mass you're planning to store in the fuselage. This aircraft handles smoothly, no matter how you turn, roll and flip this aircraft, it will never lose control. Quick context, I am a software engineer. If, instead, all goes well, then once your jet engines have shut down you will need to start the second part of your space mission by switching to rockets. I removed them and it works fine now. If you placed the main wings at the centre of mass and then added the smaller wings behind, this should be correct already. For this to happen, I'm assuming you're using rocket fuel tanks. When gear is placed, it has just one point of attachment. I dont really need 200m/s for take off. Secondly, it would suggest that your spaceplane's center of lift is too far forward compared to its center of gravity (causing the uncontrollable spin). Does anybidy have any tips on how to build spaceplanes? If you have trouble pitching up enough to land at a reasonable speed, you can increase your maneuverability by toggling your flaps, canards and ailerons to greater than 100% control authority. This is generally an issue of not spacing your landing gears out far enough apart. If your spaceplane is able to fly and land steadily at low speeds but just you're having difficulty slowing down as you approach the runway, try to reach your desired speed first and then approach the runway in almost level flight. If you can give a craft file and a mod list I could take a look. Paste as plain text instead, You want to get up to get the gear tucked away and reduce drag. Maybe ;making the tailwheel less stiff would help, too. When flying straight the plane is pretty stable but pitching up causes a sharp roll and I cant figure out why. You can even try refueling it before recovering your spaceplane further increasing your recovering value. If you use an Advanced SAS, and raise your front landing wheel so that it is higher than the rear wheels, by just turning the SAS on and going full throttle, due to the 10 degree angle of the plane, it should eventually take off by itself. This is either a collider or design issue, if the craft doesn't have enough lift initially to get off the ground it will bounce a bit before taking off. Either one of those being misaligned will cause instability on the runway during takeoff (and the engines misaligned will cause flight problems). You cannot paste images directly. Similar principles apply when finding suitable landing sites away from the KSC. Your previous content has been restored. I'm making sure that I keep trying to get it up but it just wont go! There are several forces in Kerbal Space Program which have an effect on the flight characteristics of SSTO craft. If your rear wheels are too far back the aircraft will not be able to pivot on the wheels and lift its nose up. The design I used is similar to what I normally used for planes but I had to swap out parts and make it smaller to compensate for Career mode changes. It is also advisable to add some control surfaces to your plane to have some control in the atmosphere: you can manually add them to the wings or choose winglets with effective control surfaces, like the Standard Canard. Those and the fixed main gear are NOTORIOUSLY bouncy. While it's true that jet engines don't work in space, they offer one large advantage over rocket engines while inside the atmosphere: fuel efficiency. This is for the same reason that you keep your fuel balanced. This is also the same reason why planes start rolling toward the middle of the runway; because both ends of the runway are further from the center of Kerbin than the middle (because it's totally flat), the runway is a valley from a gravitational frame of reference. I managed to successfully takeoff and land this aircraft at least 20 times in a roll now and I haven't even lost a single pilot flying this. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. Landing is hard. * Gear not mounted to parts that will flex (e.g. Is there a way to rectify this problem. Valve Corporation. This plane will be able to take off, travel somewhere, perform a crew report, and then land. I had this one plane, very fast, It would go to 170 m/s on the runway then drop of the end and soar very nicely. A good example of this is at the KSC runway when landing on a 90 degree bearing. First of all, since the launch happens horizontally, you will have to include landing gears, and you will most likely want to include jet engines for the first stage for excellent fuel and cost efficiency. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). They are able to operate at higher altitudes and can even continue operating in a vacuum by switching to a rocket mode. "Type E" is the smallest you should have, and you want a set of those connected at the back of the fuselage. You can either go with four "LY-O1 Fixed" or a tricycle of two LY-01 near the back and one "LY-05 Steerable" at the front; either is fine for now. 3. make sure your center of mass is slightly in front of center of lift force. The default max stress value is just ridiculous, its like flying in hair gel, everything gets torn apart so easily, like that will ever happen in real life. It is due to the spinning up of the engines. I have never successfully landed a single aircraft before as they all tend to roll over when landing at high speed. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. This allows you to avoid the extra weight and mass of additional fuselage parts, so you only have to deal with the extra weight of the fuel itself. Cure: Draw a mental axis from the nose to the tail of the plane and use the rotate tool (summetry on), on one of the wheels. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. Powered by Invision Community. Thank you and happy landings. I found biggest cause of this as well as not being able to possibly correct is having sas on during takeoff, make sure that is off during take off and should find problem is less likely to occur, but I too struggle to make working space planes even when center of lift, mass, thrust are all as needed. I feel tat it is either due to the symmetry placement in this game being inaccurate or certain parts where i anchor my landing gears on are not perfectly symmetrical and the physics calculation is just too sensitive about even the slightest misalignment. (Sorry For Poor Image Quality) : r/KerbalAcademy 385 votes, 49 comments. Thanks for all the help. When flying straight the plane is pretty stable but pitching up causes a sharp roll and I cant figure out why. The reverse also happens. That will align with the craft axis. It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). One FL-T100 tank can't power any rocket into space, yet a Shock Cone Intake, a Mk1 Inline Cockpit, a half-filled FL-T100 and a J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine aimed in the general direction of "up" will let you laugh your way past the 70km mark at nearly 1200m/s. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! To maximize lift, your aircraft should rest on the ground with the fuselage tilted upward at anywhere up to a 25-27 angle so that the wings will end up tilted back at up to 30. [KSP 2] I'm trying really hard to make a Mun capable ship but this rocket . Lift maxes out at 30 and declines beyond that point, so avoid excessive fuselage tilt.[1]. Elevators are usually places in the front or back of an aircraft, and their function, as the name implies, is to change the pitch of the nose up and down. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The plane is clearly unstable. as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. I have done everything imaginable to try to remedy this problem. 67K subscribers in the KerbalAcademy community. Install S5 moon rocket By lightbreaker_64. I am accelerating it to over 200m/s on the runway just to test the stability of those wheels since the faster you go, the more likely the plane will wobble and flip on the runway. Because of how small Kerbin is and how high its gravity is, a perfectly flat surface just north of the equator will cause planes taking off to bias to the right of the runway, as if they were rolling downhill.
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